Sorry, this was only recorded on a phone so video and audio quality is not very good.  This is a Q&A session from a recent retreat.  I’ll paste some of the questions here so you know what was discussed.

-How, if at all, can we use this practice to strengthen our relationships?

– How do these practices line up with the teachings of Jesus Christ? I have many Christian friends that tell me to stay clear because it is devil worship.

– Is it important/helpful to know the meaning of the Mantra?

– What is the difference/ similarities between this community and ISKON?

So before speaking I offer my respects to my spiritual teachers, our lineage, and to the Supreme Soul:

aum ajnana timirandhasya jnananjana salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri gurave namah

bhaja sri krishna caitanya prabhu nityananda
sri advaita gadadhara srivasadi gaura bhakta vrnda

he krishna karuna sindho dina bandho jagat pate
gopesa gopika kanta radha kanta namo ‘stu te

aum namo bhagavate vasudevaya

So I’ve been handed a few questions which I will attempt to address.

“How, if at all, can we use this practice to strengthen our relationships?”

You want the actual answer, or you want to fluff around?

Audience member: She’s asking if you’re asking us, maybe not understanding that people have written down the question.

Acharya das: Oh okay, yeah, so this is a question that was been handed to me that someone submitted so I—and I’m meant to answer the question.

The spiritual perspective is that we are all eternal spiritual beings. We are temporarily inhabiting this body. This body, and the mind that comes with it is not us. This is something we are using. In a state of deep illusion, we identify the body as being the self, and we live our entire life almost absorbed in this wrong idea that this body is who I am, and we are often quite oblivious to our actual spiritual identity. Because the body is temporary the connections that we build based on this body are also temporary. That freaks a lot of people out.

I will just share something else; and people that may not be very familiar with the idea of transmigration of the soul may find this a little difficult: We have come into this particular body, this lifetime—we did not come into existence with this body, we have existed eternally. We are eternal spiritual beings. This particular body and all of the relationships are temporary connections. We have had a previous life or lives, and in those lives we had mothers and fathers, husbands or wives, children, friends, brothers or sisters; and now we have no idea about that, and where those people are now mean nothing to us, because we have moved on to a new situation. If we think about that a little deeply, we should be utterly shocked and probably a little bit terrified by that revelation. The reason I’m raising it is because generally the question about strengthening relationships is sort of like, well, to what end? For what purpose?

There are material relationships and there are spiritual relationships. For a person that wants to journey on the spiritual path, then they should strive to see that the people that I am somewhat temporarily connected with, that are related to this body, are also eternal spiritual beings. And I can simply relate to them as the body, which is not fulfilling, and I can try to turn that into some extraordinarily wonderful experience, which it can never become—maybe very nice, but it doesn’t transport me into some ecstatic experience; or I can cultivate the appreciation and understanding that while in this embodied state I do have relationships, I do have people that I am connected with, and if I want to deepen relationships I should be striving to see them as eternal spiritual beings also struggling in material existence, looking for perfection, looking for happiness, looking for that which is completely fulfilling, which are spiritual desires.

We all aspire to love, to experience love. That is actually a spiritual experience. It is not an emotion. It is not something that actually arises from the mind. That is not love. That is classified as lust, which means self-centred attractions and self-centred relationships.

The more I grow in the spiritual understanding of my own identity and appreciate the reality that others are eternal spiritual beings, then I have a great duty and obligation to try and help them on this journey, that we all become pilgrims on a spiritual journey, and I am seeking to help my fellow pilgrims on this journey, steadying them when they get unsteady, picking them up when they fall, offering them love and advice and guidance. This is the key to strengthening relationships. My answer is probably a little bit different than what most people are thinking. What is the impetus for this?

We are eternal spiritual beings. We have a source. We have come from somewhere. We have an eternal connection to the Supreme Soul, and it is because I have become disconnected, where I am not recognizing this connection, I feel alone. I feel lonely, and I look to fill up that emptiness with relationships in this world.

The greatest good that I can do for others in terms of my relationships with them is for me to become focused on re-establishing my connection with the Supreme, for me to experience the highest form of transcendental and ecstatic love and to be able to share that with those that I am close to by virtue of some bodily relationship. That is how we strengthen our relationships. That’s how we use this practice to strengthen relationships.

 

If we don’t take them to this spiritual level, if they don’t become a spiritual experience, then they are simply, can be nice, often periods of unpleasantness, sense of betrayal and disappointment because others cannot fulfill what I desire. No, there’s only one person that can fulfill what you desire. It is God. It is the Supreme Soul. That is what is lacking. The more my connection matures in that regard, the more I have to share, the greater will be my concern for others.

Okay? We good with that?

Next question might be a little bit challenging for some people:

“How do these practices line up with the teachings of Jesus Christ? I have many Christian friends and they tell me to stay clear because it is devil worship.”

You got a couple of hours? This is a deep subject, and a very serious subject. Many people take to religion and religious practice in somewhat of a superficial way, unfortunately. There’s way more to it than simply superficial understanding.

When somebody speaks of the devil what are they speaking of?

Audience member: This is where we raise our hand?

Acharya das: If you wish.

Audience member: Wasn’t he God’s favourite and the fallen angel, fell out of grace?

Acharya das: Which tells us what? Number one: I will tell you clearly there is no power that can oppose the Supreme Soul. It’s not like there are two constantly battling entities, because if there are that means there are two Gods, a white God and a black God, a light God and a dark God; and it’s not—What was it that led to the fall of Lucifer? Most people actually don’t know, some people do, but, it was envy of God and a desire to be the centre of things, to be all powerful, to be the central enjoying agent.

I had a friend many, many years ago, and I was assisting him in opening an ashram in the Philippines, and he encountered a couple of—a few Catholic priests, and some others who asked him this question. And he said, “If you want to see Lucifer, just look in the mirror.” This is a very challenging idea.

In our life, who is the most important person?

Audience member: Me.

Acharya das: Me! I see everything in relation to me: I like this; I don’t like that; Did you hear what they said about me? I’m—everything is about me! I am at the centre of things. I dream and plan for my life, how I will become the enjoyer of things, how I will create a beautiful life, and I will have so many family members, and I will succeed in my career, and I will do all of this.

This thinking is criticised in the Vedas as the desire to be the central enjoying agent, to be the controller and enjoyer of everything, and it’s so ridiculous. You know, just down the street here, if you go down the end of the street, there’s houses. You don’t even know those people in there, or maybe you do, I don’t know, but you probably don’t. And down the street a little bit you’ve got more people, and then down there you’ve got more people, and then Tauranga is full of people. You go up to Auckland, and it’s just like few million people, and every single person—and we’re just still in New Zealand. You want to go to some of the mega-cities of the world where there’s 15, 18, 20 million people in one city; and every single person is thinking of themself as being the centre of their life, the centre of everything.

Is this not the same consciousness that Lucifer reportedly manifest? The answer is, yes, absolutely, it’s the same. So when we speak of the devil we have to look at it within the context of what was actually taught, rather than just a shallow dipping into certain ideas.

Who is the centre of everything?

Audience member: God.

Acharya das: If God is the centre of everything then how come in my life it’s all about me? What does that tell you? It tells you there’s a massive disconnect. I may recognize some Higher Spiritual Energy or a Higher Being or something, and I may pray, but usually what I am doing is asking, “Please can You do me a favour? Can You serve me? Can You give me stuff? Can You take care of my kids? Can You help my Mum? Can You help me with my exam?” This is like—this is better than nothing, but it is not a very mature connection to that transcendent truth and reality we describe as God.

How about that to get started with? We’re just getting started here.

What—I ask people that say they are followers of Lord Jesus Christ, when you ask, “What is his greatest teaching?” in my experience, way less than 50% of people that hold themselves to be Christians can actually give an answer that is accurate. What is the greatest teaching?

Audience member: To love the Lord thy God…

Acharya das: To love the Lord thy God with your whole heart, your whole mind, your whole being. And the second is like unto that. It’s kind of like it. It’s not the same: to love thy neighbour or thy brother as thyself. Mostly people point to that one as being the most important. It’s not. It is dependent upon the first one.

And then the question is, what does this mean to love with your whole heart, your whole mind? What is this state or condition of love where it’s not a divided love: “Oh, I love my wife, or my husband, I love my kids, I love the dog, I love the new car, I love the new dress I got, and oh, I love God also.” No, that’s an entirely different thing, that has nothing to do with this first and foremost commandment.

So, what does it mean? What is this condition where you have fallen so profoundly and deeply in love that your whole, your whole heart, your whole mind, your whole being is absorbed in that condition of love? What is it? How do you experience it? What is the experience of someone that has been able—one who has been blessed with this experience of love? What is it? How is it experienced? How does it manifest? How do I acquire this? What is the pathway?

You ask these questions. There are not actual real answers, on the whole. There may be occasionally some individual that can be helpful, but generally it is unknown. And that is shocking, since this is what it’s all meant to be about for followers of Lord Jesus Christ.

Have you ever met someone that is completely and utterly in love with God, totally? What were they like? What was their speech? How did they behave? How do they deal with others? These are big questions. Who can I go to direct me towards the development of this experience? Massive questions.

There have been some rare individuals who have addressed some of these things. They often reference them as the mystics of the early church or the—some of the, some, not all, of the founding fathers. Two of them have specifically addressed the idea of salvation, seeking salvation, and how that is actually diametrically opposed to the condition of love. And they say it is direct diametrically opposed because, in seeking salvation, I am the central personality there, and I am asking somebody more powerful to save me. I’m asking them to render me some service, to do something for me, but I am at the centre of things; whereas in the condition of love the only, only thought is, “How can I please the Lord of my heart? What can I do to please?”—never the idea of “What can I get? What can I take?” This is the actual meaning of unconditional love.

These are deep and profound subjects, and we encourage anybody that wants to try to follow Lord Jesus Christ to do it with utter sincerity, with great humility, in a mood of profound prayer to understand and to be able to experience what it was that he was teaching. There is a—I’ll see if I can locate it.

[brief interaction with organiser]

In the gospel of Matthew there is a statement by Jesus Christ, or reportedly his statement (and I don’t doubt that it was his statement, by the way) where he says,

“Not everyone that saith unto me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven…”

Pause there for a moment—to declare Jesus Christ as your Lord doesn’t guarantee you entrance into heaven.

“… but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesized in thy name and in thy name cast out devils and in thy name have done many wonderful works [meaning perform miracles], and I shall declare unto them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me who practice iniquity.’”

And when we are confronted with that statement it’s like, whoa, what is that? And it tells me that a–I’m going to use the word superficial, not in a demeaning way, I really hope that people will appreciate what that means, but a superficial acceptance of Jesus, a declaration of allegiance, being able to heal in his name, to cast out devils in his name, to perform miracles in his name, does not mean that you are his follower. One must know what is the will, he said, of my Father.

And that’s like, whoa that is humbling to consider. We should not be proud and think that we know and understand what is the heart, what is the will, of such a personality as Jesus Christ. It is not a very simple thing.

It’s okay, I mean, you know what, he possesses such amazing and unbelievable spiritual potency that even if you’ve really got it wrong, even if you don’t understand, even if you are just superficially accepting, it will be a wonderful blessing upon your life. But do not miss the opportunity that is actually being offered, by not going deeper into the understanding, seeking the understanding of what was truly taught, and what it means, and how it should be applied.

Do I sound like a Christian?

Audience: Inaudible

Acharya das: No? Oh.

Audience member: A spiritual person.

Acharya das: Huh?

Audience member: A spiritual person.

Acharya das: Yeah. Do I speak against Jesus Christ?

Audience member: No.

Acharya das: He is for me utterly worshipable. His declarations and statements were utterly transcendental. I have no desire to have people turn their attention from him and what he spoke. My plea is that people will actually go very deeply into what it was that he taught and seek for that to become their life.

Wow these guys are serious!

Does anybody have a question on that?

Organiser: I got it [meaning mike to audience member]

Acharya das: Yes?

Audience member: Can you be a Christian and a spiritualist at the same time? Can you be spiritual and be a Christian?

Acharya das: Well, to be a follower of Jesus Christ doesn’t mean to belong to an organization. It means to become profoundly spiritual, but many people take religion in a very superficial way. And I’m not condemning that! Like I said, it’s better that people do that than they just behave like animals. It’s better that they embrace certain guiding principles and everything, but real Christianity is not about belonging to a church or an organization. It’s about the establishment of a genuine and profound spiritual connection with Jesus Christ and what he taught, which will entail you coming to love, he said, that you should come to love the father as I love him.

But mostly people are oblivious to a connection with his father, and they want to focus on him. And I can say that is okay. It’s not wrong or bad, because of his spiritual potency. I mean look at the effect that he’s had on the world, even with so many people spreading a corrupt understanding or an incorrect understanding which is less than corrupt but—and people professing an allegiance to him in a very materialistic way, and just seeking to get what they can for themself and their life and everything, which is nothing to do with what he was advising, that’s—still there is a great power and potency there. And so, he wanted that we become actually spiritual.

Audience member: Thank you.

Audience member: I feel like I’m in two separate worlds.

Acharya das: Huh?

Audience member: I feel like I’m living in two separate worlds.

Acharya das: Living in two separate worlds, yeah.

Audience member: I’m studying in a Christian based tertiary institute that are telling us academically that spiritualism, [Acd: Yeah.]… not okay, and so I’m living in two worlds going…

Acharya das: Yeah, I think there’s a need to find what is the real connection between them because somebody may propose that Jesus meant this or meant that.

What you need to do is to take shelter in him and deeply pray, in a mood of great surrender, to be enlightened, to understand what it was that he was teaching, what it was that he was actually doing.

Modern Christianity, if I can use that term, it has been a development of theology. The way in which many followers of Jesus spoke and practiced soon after his departure in many instances is quite different than how people practice now. There were many schisms in the early church between different theological points of view. We understand that it is possible, by God’s grace, to have a particular way of seeing and appreciating things, and somebody might have a different way of seeing and appreciating, and because that seems to be externally to be different from what I’m doing I should not hate them and cause them harm. They may have a higher appreciation than myself.

And what happened was in the early formation of the church, particularly when religious leaders became allied with powerful rulers and politicians who—and they then used their armies to attack those that opposed them. And there were so many instances of monasteries being absolutely pillaged and burned, and all of the people that had a particular theological point of view put to the sword and killed, and their writings all burned.

Within Catholicism you have the, what’s it called? [Audience member, the Apostles Creed] the Apostles Creed, yeah, where there are declarations of faith, “I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the creator of Heaven…” On each one of those points, there was a period when there was a big battle, a theological battle about how that should be understood, and one side defeated the other side, often through violence, and that thing was pushed away.

And so, they demanded of everyone to take an oath, that this is what they believe; because a person who didn’t believe it wouldn’t say they would, because if they did they felt that they were betraying God. And so, requiring people to take the oath flushed out the people that weren’t on your team. And so, with each one of those declarations there was a theological point that was of massive significance, and where actually often battles were fought in different ways over those points—which I don’t think is a good way to develop theology! Right? Rather than pushing a particular interpretation I should strive to have that revelation of what this truly means.

There are so many instances of people, that were sometimes referred to as mystics within the church, a good example is John of the Cross, who was then put into a dungeon by the Jesuits because they said he was a heretic. Then later he was declared to be a saint. If he was actually a saint then what these guys did, the leadership of the Jesuit movement, they were acting on behalf of Satan, because if he was a saint (you know what I mean?) it was so evil and wrong to do that.

So, we know that there were problems. And the biggest single problem in our understanding, from the Vedic perspective, is the lack of a genuine spiritual teacher who is truly and utterly a perfect lover of God, who can relay actual meaning.

So when you have people that are just fighting on the intellectual platform and trying to justify—There is a verse in an ancient text called the Srimad Bhagavatam, the Bhagavat Purana, and it talks about theologians fighting, and the desire to be right will make it so you cannot actually come to know God, because the greater desire is to be right, which is not a spiritual desire. It is an utterly material desire. But they say it’s about theology, so it’s all important! And it’s kind of like, well, you’ve got to understand that theological discussion can be permeated by envy and by bad intention, by materialism, by egotism, all kinds of things.

So, simply because a person is claiming that they are doing it on behalf of God doesn’t make it so, as that verse which I just read, just because somebody is claiming that in the name of Jesus they are doing all this stuff, he says, “No, I’m not accepting that, if you are not doing the will of my Father.” So then, so what is that will? What is that will? Big question.

So, it’s not two worlds. If you have been blessed to, and inspired to, seek a deeper appreciation and understanding, you should understand that to be a great blessing. You should hold to it very tightly. In our immaturity and our lack of understanding we should not get into fights (you know what I mean?) and schisms over things that we may not be qualified to be discussing. It is better that we are patient, that we are faithful, and that we deeply engage in these spiritual practices, knowing that in time I will be purified, and revelation—things will be revealed to me.

Does that sound okay? Pretty nice, yeah? We should not be fearful of engaging in the journey, to seek to know God, and more importantly, to attain the condition, actual love for God.

We’re good?

So, wow it’s 6:00.

Audience member: Inaudible

Acharya das: Keep going if I like?

Organiser: We started a little bit late, so we’re thinking maybe we could serve up about 6:15 or twenty past six if that’s okay.

Acharya das: Okay, well I might be able to get through the others. Next one, next question that was asked,

“Is it important or helpful to know the meaning of the mantra,”

And is short answer is no, but it can be, so it’s a yes, and no. If I want to experience the beauty of a sunset or a sunrise, is it important for me to understand how the sun has been formed, and how it is radiating heat and light, what are the physics mechanisms, and how it is refracting light through the atmosphere to produce all of these colours? Is it required that I know that, in order to experience the beauty and the wonder of a sunrise or a sunset? And the short answer is, no. So, in a similar manner, while it is nice to understand, another reality is these things have such deep meaning we can understand them in a simple way which is fine.

Example, I’ll just deal with the first three words of the mantra, Gopala Govinda Rama, Madana Mohana.

Gopala addresses a quality of God or a higher Transcendent reality where one is offered complete and utter protection. I often use the example, because it’s the closest thing for me that I can think of in this world, when you see a newborn baby in the arms of its mother or father, and it’s like so secure, right? It’s in a state of being fully protected. Can the mother or father offer protection? Not really. On some things they can. Try holding onto the baby in a 7.8 earthquake when the building you’re in is falling down around you. How much protection can you offer? You can’t. But when we look at it just from that picture of that state… we have a desire to be safe. We have a desire to be absolutely protected and embraced, in that condition, and this name Gopala speaks to that characteristic or quality of the Supreme Soul, God, who offers this experience to the individual soul.

Govinda: it is when one experiences with their senses, meaning sight, smell, touch, taste, when one experiences that highest transcendent reality one is overwhelmed with waves of ecstatic experience, great transcendental ecstasies. This is what real religion, real spiritual life, means. And so this name Govinda speaks of that Person, that truth which ecstatically enlivens all souls in the most profound and extraordinary way.

Rama means transcendent or transcendental pleasure, pleasure that is hair raising, goosebumps, hair standing on end, shivering, shedding of tears because of the melting of the heart, this is the pleasure that is addressed in this name.

So, when we speak of these mantras we tell people that these are transcendental sounds—yes, they are. We say that when you chant them, when you receive them in the proper way, and you chant them, you are exposing yourself to that highest transcendental reality, you are in the presence of God when you take these sounds and say them. As you learn to do it, with greater humility and surrender and focus, then one will eventually be able to enter this transcendent dimension, this experience, and have a great awakening. This is called self-realization and God realization.

I would not normally speak this way to most people but for whatever reason I’m speaking this way. We tell people, “Just engage in the process. It will purify your heart and purify your mind,” but it offers more than that, it offers everything that your heart actually desires and in a much more profound and greater way than you could even imagine.

So these mantras, yes, there is meaning, and there are layers of meaning and layers of appreciation, but they all relate to the connection between the individual soul and the Supreme Soul.

Okay, how’s that sound? Awesome or what?

Oh…next question:

“What is the difference or similarities between this community and Iskcon?”

Number one, it’s so important to appreciate, to actually really grasp, that your spiritual journey is individual and personal. By becoming part of a community or thinking that by joining an organization that one will be saved or receive spiritual experience—no, that’s not true. That’s not true. Your being saved, [air quotes] your having, to—experiencing self-realization and God realization is a personal and individual journey. Doing it in the company of like-minded individuals is important, but that is not the most important. This is only a support.

There are many people that become too focused on being part of a community, or being part of an organization, and lose the importance of the personal and individual connection with God, with spiritual truth. And so we warn people against that because it creates an atmosphere of sectarianism which is actually the enemy of true spiritual realization.

Myself, I am a disciple of Srila Bhaktividanta Swami Prabhupad, who I know as my life and soul, but I do not have a connection with the current organization. A spiritual teacher will often use organization as a way to multiply efforts to reach out to people in an attempt to want to relieve the suffering of others. And in those attempts a spiritual teacher may engage people that are not very spiritually advanced and may have bad qualities even. If they will participate in assisting the effort to relieve the suffering of others, he will gladly engage them, for their benefit, and for the benefit of others. But one should not think that simply by virtue of being connected with an organization that one is automatically spiritually advanced. That is not the case at all.

So, I don’t want to get into details and stuff but there are some differences of what I will call appreciation, putting it in as kind a way as I can. And so while I offer them respects I do so from a little distance. I have my own work to do. I have my spiritual teachers. I try to assist them.

The most important thing that you can seek in your life is a genuine representative of God, a representative of the highest truth. There’s nothing more important. And when one has the good fortune of coming into contact, then one can be guided and grow in their spiritual realization and experience, and come to the platform of perfect love for God. But that is, as I said, an individual journey, it’s not a team effort.

In the Western World there is this phenomena, within Christianity—there is a word ecclesiastical, which means of the church, and the idea is that the church, the organization is empowered, and by virtue of your connecting with the organization you can become saved. This idea is not accepted in the Vedas. They say that it is an individual and personal journey, and you individually must seek the shelter of a highly spiritual advanced person and take instruction and adopt practice and be guided for your spiritual wellbeing.

I hope that’s sufficient to deal with that subject. Big subject, actually has got lots of wonderful parts to it, but we don’t want to go too far down the rabbit hole there.

Okay, that’s all the questions I had.

Organiser: Yeah, I just wondered if do what we do in Hamilton and use the meal time to answer some questions?

Acharya das: Okay, so he’s suggesting that during dinner time—because they run a program in Hamilton, very nice, and I go down there a couple of times a week to support them. During dinner time we sit around, and people can ask questions if you want, and I am very glad to try and answer them. I am very far from a perfect personality. I have humbly tried to follow my spiritual teachers, and I feel very fortunate to have the opportunity to attempt, even if it is in a faulty way, to share with you the great transcendental truths that they have shared with me. So anybody wants to ask stuff, you are doing me a favour. It is giving me the opportunity to repay my spiritual teachers for the great kindness that they have shown me, by sharing.

Audience member: We had a men’s group earlier, and a few things came up which was really interesting. One was fear.

Acharya das: One is?

Audience member: Fear.

Acharya das: Fear.

Audience member: How do you deal with fear [Acd: What do you….] about things and things going, losing things or things happening to you.

Acharya das: Okay. There’s fundamentally two categories of fear. One category has to do with the nature of this world. The underlying principle of all fear is fear of death. All other forms of fear, practically, spring from that. When I say fear of death, means a fear also of things coming to an end, a fear that I will lose something that I hold to be valuable, it is ultimately traced back to a fear of death.

The great experience from the awakening of the appreciation that I am an eternal spiritual being, you can not die! You will never die! You’ll leave your body, your body’s going to die, yeah. Everybody’s body is going to die. It doesn’t go anywhere else. All roads lead to the cemetery. I’m sorry, that’s the reality. And I am eternal, and I have a limited time in this body, and I should use that time wisely to do something important, something noble, something generous and kind. And when I embrace and begin to more deeply appreciate my eternal existence, fear tends to dissipate. I become less fearful of things. Because I accept the nature of this world is temporary, constantly changing, everything goes to crap in the end, except me and that which is real. That’s amazing, that’s wonderful. And so the more I become immersed in that appreciation, wow, I am so relaxed with everything, even great challenges and stuff.

The other type of fear is the fear of not attaining salvation, and this can be a very big fear for people. You should know this truth. You are an eternal spiritual being, a part and parcel, a child of God. You are loved unconditionally. You have an eternal spiritual nature. The process of spiritual life is the process of uncovering what is there. You don’t have to worry about being saved or condemned. You simply have to uncover your actual spiritual nature and condition and your eternal connection, this bond of, it’s described in one ancient text, the Brahma Samhita, and it is a bond of eternal kinship.

Kinship, this is a wonderful word. It’s like a person, if you have a child, even if they grow up to be the biggest a-hole on the planet, and they’re just a disaster, and they treat you like crap and everything, and it’s been heartbreak, if they come to your door one day, and knock, and they are standing there, you don’t throw the chair at them, you don’t tell them to piss off. No, you won’t do that. When you see them standing there with a look of, head down, great shame, what—how do you respond? A parent immediately embraces the child and welcomes them back into their heart, into their world. Is that not true?

Audience member: Not always.

Acharya das: Not always. Well, yeah, no, I hear you. Sometimes on both parts there are failings, but a person that is actually in contact with their humanity has a really hard time seeing anybody suffer, even one that may have caused them grief. When a person is disconnected from their humanity and caught up in their mind, then they may respond in an unkind way, a lack of acceptance.

But if we think about it in terms of an ideal, would not a parent take their child into their arms, in terms of an ideal? So that ideal is a tiny reflection of a higher spiritual reality. We are loved. There is no need to fear for our so-called salvation. We must become surrendered in heart, surrendered in spirit and accept these wonderful spiritual gifts.

When we come to—you know, I had such a hard time, when I was a kid, on the question of forgiveness, of sin. I was about, maybe, I don’t know, 12 years old, and I asked—because I was raised in a Catholic family, and not long after this I, actually because of this question, I went in another direction. My question was, “If I have committed some sinful act, if I been displeasing to God, and I knew I should…” in the Catholic tradition you have to go to a priest and bear your soul and state the sinful act that you did and ask for forgiveness, to be forgiven. So my question was, “What if I had not sought forgiveness, but I knew I needed to do it, and I decided I would go to confession, and on the way there I stepped off the foot path and got hit by a car and killed, but I hadn’t been to confession nor had I asked for forgiveness, what would happen to me?” and without batting an eyelid, the nun said to me, “You’d go to hell,” and I go, okay that’s it, I’m out of here. This is not even a possibility, because I cannot have a higher sense of justice—this is just like, I’m sorry, I’m not buying it.

So, I went in another direction because of that. I discovered yoga and Eastern mysticism and yoga philosophy and stuff. That was a bit weird growing up in Te Aroha, 14 year old doing astanga yoga back in the late 60s. It was like, “Whoa, that guy’s got mental problems.”

So, the more we grow in spiritual understanding and experience we become, we rise above all experiences of fear, we feel utterly secure in spiritual realization.

Okay?

So, we chant a little bit?

Audience: Yes.

Acharya das: The big challenge for us is our state of consciousness. Wherever we are in our journey in life, we have a state of consciousness that is affected and influenced by our experiences, which has made it so we have certain views of the world, of reality, of truth. And everything that enters, enters through that filter. And it takes time for us to grow in great humility. If I find someone that is speaking the truth, and they say something that is a little bit difficult to take on board, then the good approach is not immediately to dismiss it, but to take it inside, and to ask, “Please give me clarity on this. How can I actually understand what is being presented? How can I see it from this other person’s perspective?” This is what it means to submissively inquire.